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ZT,谁将是下一个“本座" ----论星际的心理战(中英文对照)

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发表于 2008-6-19 22:15 |只看该作者 |倒序浏览
连续5次进入MSL的决赛和一次OSL的冠军,并有这67.16%的胜率,这就是Savior所创造的一段几乎没有对手的统治期。在星际的历史中,当Savior统治期结束的时候也同时标志着开始了一种新的变化。基于这个观点上,许多顶尖的选手们都有他们自己独一无二的,高人一筹的特点;Boxer的统治优势是通过他的微操和战术,Nada则是能在各个方面超过对手,iloveoov的统治优势是靠的他无敌的大局观,而Savior这是靠他的大局观和对时间准确的把握。这些老一辈具有统治力的选手就是靠这一项或者多项能力的突出,从而超越了其余的选手,这也是职业选手和业余选手之间的最大区别。

当Bisu击败Savior的时候,或许这个就是在星际的历史中一个非常关键的信号。所有旧的历史都被抛弃而新的时代已经来到。在战队联赛中涌现了大批的选手(Hwasin, Stork, Firebathero,Jaedong 和 Mind),他们随着Bisu一起成为了S级别的选手。这是自星际历史以来,开始的一段没有一个具有绝对统治能力的支配者时代,也开始了一段竞争最激烈的时代。这些选手中还没有一个能达到统治地位,但是,有一点是值得注意的,他们要比其余的选手更成功些。

让我们先来看看Savior的星际时代,这里的每场比赛都是为取得心理的优势而战斗。








在有这一个好的心理状态下你通常会赢得胜利,尤其是当选手间差距是非常小的时候。在OSL决赛上对阵Boxer的时候,Iloveoov出色的心理状态帮助他可以在2:2后的决胜局中保持冷静和取得胜利。在这次比赛中双方实力的差别是微乎其微的,而iloveoov那更好的心态成为决定胜负的因素。在OSL中,Boxer出众的心理是帮助他战胜Pusan的一个显著标志之一,事实上如果Pusan有这更好的心态,他就能在领先的情况下抵挡住Boxer的反击。因此在心态和胜利之间有这一个重要的关系,尤其是当双方心理的差别是非常小的时候。

由于在星际中日趋完善的职业化,机器般的训练和战略方式,让所有选手间的差别变得越来越小。在职业选手间A级选手和S级选手间的基本功几乎变的越来越是微乎其微的。在Savior之前的时代里有许多精妙操作的只会出现在精彩程度排名前三的比赛中,而在如今你却可以从那些甚至没有参加过10次电视转播的选手中看到那些操作。尽管S级选手间的水平差距越来越小,但S级之所以是S级,是因为他们有这高人一筹的心态。这个心理状态可以归纳于来自赢得半决赛或者决赛后和来自平时每一场比赛的点滴。维持住这样的一个胜利心态是S级选手成功的关键。

维持这种胜利的心态的困难程度是超过想象的,只有很少的选手能真正做到这一点。让我们拿Savior当例子,在他刚刚遇上Bisu的时候,那时候没有什么是他不能做的。他的外表,他的采访,他打哈气的样子,他所作的任何事情都让人为他而着迷。在GomTV S1中人们都对他战胜新人Bisu报有了极大的期望。毕竟他是这个世界上最好的选手。然后一个3-0的比分让他彻底的从高处坠了下来,残酷的比分把它的信心击碎,你可以清楚地发现他心理上的变化。



Savior在他的统治期间和非统治期间的差别是惊人的。。。



对于Savior来说他的水平并没人任何改变,他依然是这个世界上最有天赋的ZVT选手,然而他没能在Shinhan Masters上打败Nada,尽管他在一周前曾赢过Nada.从Shinhan的决赛到ShinhanMasters这段时间里没有任何大的水平的差异。只是那种思想进入到了Savior信心里,甚至随这时间的推移,这种他已经不是最好的选手的想法已经开始在折磨他,这种观念是很难去体会的。他开始输掉越来越多的比赛,像在和FireBatHero的一系列比赛或者是和Iris的四分之一比赛。他的心态已经恶化,他不能在把自己当成偶像。他的思想开始了180度的转变,尽管他还有这足够的实力,但也不能让他再赢得比赛。

保留在你脑海中过去最惨重失败的记忆是非常痛苦的,Bisu就很好的证明了这点。Mind急切求胜思想是支持他的动力。他在击败了iloveoov和Savior后进入了MSL决赛,这也可能是在进入MSL决赛过程中最困难的赛程了。
然后他要面对卫冕冠军Bisu.。历史再一次的又让Bisu面对了从自己和大家而来的很高呼声。而Mind完美的展现了他的实力,3-1击败了Bisu。而Bisu完全被打垮,他的信心也遭受了打击。在EVER 07 OSL半决赛上,他又在失望的情绪中0-3输给了Stork. Bisu的水平没有退步,自从他在GomTVS2 MSL上击败Stork后,他每天练习的都很刻苦。但是因为在对Mind的失利,他的信心已经被重重的打击了。







他曾是一个神族改革者,但是他无法战胜Mind


在一个队伍中教练有许多的责任,但其中一个变得日趋重要的的事情就是帮助他的队员保持信心。SkT1的前教练Joo Hoon就很善于这方面。当T1在联赛中奋斗的时候,当队员们对能战胜OGN而感到绝望的时候,他能通过改变iloveoov的心态,而让iloveoov重回信心。
引用当时iloveoov自己的话:



直到昨天为止,我都很没有信心。我的胜率是0,我一直在输掉比赛。所以我对教练说,我在练习中输了很多局,我没有信心。而教练告诉我“让自己接受自己已经不再是顶尖选手的事实然后再去应对它。”教练还补充说到“队长的胜利将会给整个队伍带来巨大的影响”感谢教练的话,我重新找回了我的信心,我心中只想到不成功便成仁。



这星际的历史中,只有2个选手有这非常伟大的能力去克服所有障碍,也就是去接受他们不再是最好的选手了,从这点上出发再重回顶点。他们就是Boxer和Nada。Boxer能一次又一次回到主要的联赛中,尽管他面对了许多的失败,比如输给iloveoov和Reach。事实上他的心理比其他所有选手都要强大,但因为他自身要服兵役的原因他不能获得更多的胜利。Nada绝对能去竞争在星际里最有心理的选手。在他经受输给Gorush的痛苦后,仅在一星期后又他又能重新再战胜他。他的3个OSL冠军经历了3个不同的时期,同时还有许多的MSL第一和第二名。就是现在他依然有能强的实力,这只能归功于他自身心态的提高。








他俩的比赛风格是不同的,但是他俩是迄今为止最好的职业选手。


读到这里你可能会感到好奇,为什么这篇文章在很大的程度上忽略一些选手。特别是Flash和被他击败的Stork和Jaedong。Jaedong曾被期望于在OSL上击败Flash,就像他在MSL上击败他一样。但是就像大家看到的一样,Flash用了一些聪明的战术和开局已2-1的比分打败了Jaedong。这就造成Jaedong有了一些明显的心态变化,但是他始终有这很强的实力。在这次失利后,Flash又在GSI上2-1再次打败了他,Jaedong这次伤的甚至更重。当然Jaedong接下来赢得了GomTVS4 MSL的冠军,但是他的对手并不是有这和他同等的水平。而且他在OSL因为连续输给Casy和Backho而被淘汰。他的MSL的征程也谈不上达到统治级别,他输给Hwasin一场。当然不得不说的是,Jaedong始终还是很强大,但是他已经输掉了他的优越感,他将开始彻底的坠落下去。

同样的话也可以说给Stork,甚至讽刺的说是他带来了最强大的Flash,我们都知道Stork在Daum的3,4名比赛中用他的航母操作把Flash打得像一个菜鸟。但是Flash把这次比赛仔细的研究,把它的反而变成了自己最强的武器。他第一次展示他的无防空流和打飞机技巧是在GSI上对Anytime。Flash在接下来的决赛中3-2打败了Stork,无疑的Stork为此承受了巨大的压力,接下来在OSL决赛的3-0更是让Stork糟糕不过。Flash借此平步青云,而Stork则深深的陷入了他自身的心理的痛苦中。










到底是什么让Flash不同于现今的其他选手,为什么他在所有的对抗中都无比强大?




就像其他伟大的选手,Flash把自身种族的弱点转变成了最强的地方。Savior用拖把流打破了Nada无敌的SK流,而Bisu用他的影刀和Bisu流打败了Savior和创造了一堆强大的pvz选手。Stork用他的运输机和甲虫转航母的打法创造了一个Protoss > Terran的局面。Jaedong则把Bisu对Z的压迫颠倒了,他把Bisu的最强的对抗变成了他最弱的对抗,而且用他的打法去击退一切对于zvp的烦恼。就像刚才所提及的,Flash在Stork的影响下开发了一个新的PVT的标准模式而且他有效的扭转了P>T的趋势。这里没有什么对于Flash来说是独一无二的,所以让我继续往下看。


Yellow曾对Flash的细节处理有过一个很有意思的评论,





当我看Flash打星际的时候,不夸张地说,我很惊讶,只感觉到惊讶。我从没见过任何一个选手能对经济控制做到他那样。所有的资源都运用到了完美的时间,绝对的完美。不仅如此,他好像能花尽每一分资源,然而他又总是能节省出水晶去扩张更多。这真是让人看的非常的惊讶,他真的是在不停的计算么?或者这都是基于他的感觉?






或许Flash是一个能用复古的流派超越头脑的选手。但这事情绝对没有那么简单。Stork和Jaedong的大局观是和Flash一个水平的,这点是毋庸置疑。他们中的每一个都有值得骄傲的基本功天赋。Flash能够战胜他们俩不是靠他的操作,而是用他的脑子。


在双方的心理对抗中,Flash能够聪明的猜透Stork和Jaedong的想法,平且削弱他们俩的信心。Flash运用计算过的战略,就像Flash在Kartrina上对Jaedong的开局方式和纯机器化。取得比赛的胜利又再一次的在心理上取得优势,让他的对手在心里上对他产生不安。如果Flash没有在一开始就打击了Jaedong的心理,Flash是肯定赢不了Jaedong。在GSI的rush就给Jaedong心理留下了阴影。本来Jaedong是绝对有实力轻松战胜Flash的,但是在心理上Flash战胜了Jaedong。在他面对Flash在Katrina上的机器化感到无所适从的时候,在他无法防止Flash的rush的时候,Jaedong的信心遭到了削弱,这也让Flash在心理上取得了优势。

对于Stork来说,他则是另一个范例,Strok在PVT上找不出应对Flash的方式,而且他只是把他的打法同样的重复的出现在GSI和OSL的决赛上。Stork遭受了很多Fans的疑问,说他的打法缺少变化,总是一成不变。Flash则借此完全算透了Stork的打法,从而把自己调整到一个最佳状态。Flash利用了每一场比赛,把Stork节奏和状态完全打乱,而Strok也不能有效地对此作出应变,就像Jaedong一样他的心理状态也崩溃了。Stork在OSL决赛上的糟糕体现了他心态上的失败,从此以后他也就变成了一个普通的神族选手。



Flash是一个新的冠军,他是一个明白如何在比赛中控制自己思想的选手。他是一个明白无论他的对手是谁,他都首先要在心理上战胜对手的选手。依靠他的强大的基本功加上具有创造力的思想,许多选手都成为了他的手下败将。他会在每次比赛中展示出他那强大的实力,从而给对手造成心理上的阴影。这就是为什么Flash能打败最好的Protoss和Zerg。而且在通过每一次胜利后,他信心也得到了极大的增强,就像Flash这样,无论对手是谁他都不会感到惧怕。





当然只有时间才能告诉我们Flash会不会成为下一个像Boxer或者Nada那样的传奇。现在没有人能真的和Flash的比赛中取得优势,也没有人能在重要的比赛中击败他。但当Flash开始被击败的时候,这会是因为新的选手会逐渐涌现出来而且开始能击败Flash和他信心,就像Flash对其他选手所作的一样。然后一个新的统治者将会浮出水面,他会有这更强的自信,这也会把他推向星际的顶端。事实上,在星际中这样的一个过程,缩短了统治者的统治时间,增加了那些颠覆统治者的机会,整个过程变得越来越快,并不停的重复着。就像我说过的,因为Flash能先其他选手一步,创造了一个以心理战为目标的作战方式。这点就是他革命性的一步,再接下来的几年里,谁能掌握这个要点谁才能获得成功。由此可证,当下一个统治者出现的时候,他必将在一些事上能领先其他选手一步,但是我们现在还要继续等待下个统治者的出现。


















Flash是一个值得被打败的选手,他自己也知道这点。



尽管星际现在进入到了历史上一段群雄逐鹿的时期,但我们依然依稀看到了一些王者的影子。他们能从众多选手间脱颖而出,是靠这他们的基本功和有这像老一辈统治级别玩家的心态,但是他们的赢或负都是基于心理的优势。事实上,在职业化的今天心态已经成为了一个最突出的因素,像Flash就可以利用这点来算计对手。他用他的大脑来摧毁对方的心理,然后借此赢得胜利。他的全部打法也是基于此点,Flash不大可能成为下一个iloveoov或者Boxer,但是他能把星际引向一个新的时代,为此他也将得到了大家的认可和尊重。





A State of Starcraft
By Plexa and Nony
Teamliquid Final Edits

It was a streak of dominance that none could rival; five consecutive MSL finals and an OSL victory with a win rate of 67.16%. The end of Savior’s giant run marked a change in the history of Starcraft. To that point the best gamers had distinguished themselves by having a superior skill set; Boxers dominance through his micro and strategies, Nada’s dominance through his superior everything, iloveoov’s dominance through his superior macro and Savior’s dominance with his macro and timing. The greats of old were a cut above the rest in one way or another, the separation between the pros and the amateurs was vast.

When Bisu defeated Savior in perhaps the most pivotal series in the history of Brood War, all of that was tossed out the window and a new era was ushered in. With the rise of Bisu came a surge of S-Class gamers which flooded all the leagues. Hwasin, Stork, Firebathero, Jaedong and Mind literally came from nowhere to dominate in a ridiculous fashion which spawned the most competitive period of Starcraft since its origin. The separation between these players was nonexistent, yet some, remarkably, were more successful than others.

Welcome to post Savior Starcraft, where every game is a mental struggle for superiority.




Having a superior mental condition typically leads victory, especially when the separation between players is very small. Iloveoov’s superior mental condition in his final against Boxer allowed him to remain calm after the brilliance of game four and defeat Boxer in the final set. The skill difference in this match was infinitesimal and the superior mental condition of Oov became deciding factor. In So1 OSL, Boxer’s superior mental condition lead him to victory over Pusan in one of the most remarkable comebacks ever – indeed if Pusan’s mental state was stronger he could have resisted the momentum that Boxer had built up. Thus there is a strong connection between mindset and victory when the skill discrepancy is very narrow.

The surge of brilliant mechanical and strategical players due to the rise in professionalism in Starcraft has lead to the playing field to be leveled. The fundamental skills of A class gamers compares favourably to the skills of the S class which shows that the gap is becoming smaller and smaller between the progamers. Nowadays you can find brilliant skills from players who have fewer than ten televised games rather than just the top three gamers of the time before Savior. But the reason there is still an S class despite the closing skill gap, is that the S Class have a superior mental state. This idea that mental states defined winning semis and finals has trickled down into every single game. Maintaining the winning mindset is the key to the S-Class’s success.

Maintaining this winning mindset is harder than it seems, and very few players can actually do it. Let’s look at Savior for example. Prior to his series with Bisu, there was nothing he could not do. His visual expressions, his interviews, the yawn rapes - everything about Savior leading up to that point spelt Maestro. The expectations from himself to defeat the newcomer, Bisu, in GomTV S1 were huge. He was the best gamer in the world after all. Then he got sent crashing back to Earth in a crushing 0-3 defeat. You could see the change in his mental state quite clearly.



Savior during his phase of dominance and Savior after, the difference is astounding

Nothing had changed in his skills; he was still the most talented ZvT player in the world. Yet he couldn’t defeat Nada in the Shinhan Masters – despite beating him weeks before. There was no major skill discrepancy from the Finals of Shinhan 3 to the Shinhan Masters; all that it can be put down to is the mindset of Savior. Indeed as time progressed Savior was plagued with the fact that he was no longer the best, a concept which was difficult to grasp. As he lost more and more games like the FireBatHero series or the Iris quarterfinal his mental state deteriorated, and he could no longer live up to his own image. His mindset did a 180 and despite his very capable skills, could not muster a win.

Preserving your mindset past crushing defeats is difficult as Bisu demonstrated quite clearly. Mind had the mindset of a champ, and momentum to back it. He had recently defeated iloveoov and Savior in quite possibly the hardest MSL run in history and now faced Bisu – the reigning champion. Once again the expectations around Bisu were high, both amongst the community and within himself. Mind showed off his impeccable talents and crushed Bisu 3-1. Bisu was crushed and his mental state suffered severely. He met Stork in the EVER07 OSL semi-finals where he was dominated 3-0 in disappointing games. Bisu’s skills had not diminished, he had practiced every day since defeating stork in GomTV S2 MSL – but his mental condition was hit hard by the loss to Mind.



He was a revolutionary, but couldn't hold his Mind together

While the idea that your mental condition is highly important is not a new one, its importance has never been greater. Coaches have a number of responsibilities within a team, but one which is becoming increasingly important is maintaining the mindset of his/her players. The legendary T1 ex-Coach Joo Hoon was a master at doing this. When T1 was struggling in Proleague and the team was desperate for a win against OGN he was able to bring the best out of a slumping Oov by changing his mindset. In Oov’s exact words;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Up until yesterday, I had no confidence. My winning percentage was 0%. I lost every time. So I told my coach, "I lose a lot in practice. I have no confidence" and he replied, "Admit that you are not the top class and tackle it". And he also said, "Choi Yeon-Sung the captain's win has the biggest influence in the team". Thanks to him, I regained my confidence. I prepared with the mindset that I will win even if I die.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are only two players in the history of Starcraft with the valuable ability to overcome all obstacles, admit they are not the best anymore, and work there way up to the top. It will come as no surprise that these two players are Boxer and Nada. Boxer was able to come back time and time again in the major leagues despite facing many brutal defeats such as his loss to Oov and Reach. Indeed his mental strength is stronger than essentially all other gamers and the only reason why he has not reached success recently because of his Air Force duties. Nada stands as a testament to the strongest mental condition of any gamer in Starcraft. He has suffered painstaking losses to GoRush only to come back weeks later and defeat him. He has OSL medals across three distinct time periods and a number of MSL 1st/2nd placings. Even now there are signs that he is still a force to be reckoned with. This can only be attributed to his heightened mental strength.



Their styles were different, yet these two are the greatest Progamers of all time

Thus far you might be curious as to why certain gamers have largely been omitted from this article, specifically Flash and his defeats of both Stork and Jaedong. Jaedong was expected by all to win his series against Flash in Bacchus OSL, just like he had done in the MSL. As well all know, Flash used some inspired builds and clever tactics to defeat Jaedong 2-1. This caused Jaedong some visible mental anguish, but he was still a powerhouse. Then to follow up on this defeat, Flash demolished him again in the GSI 2-1 which hurt Jaedong even more. Sure Jaedong went on to win GomTV S4 MSL, defeating a sub par field along the way, but he was eliminated from the OSL in straight sets by Casy and Backho. His MSL run hasn’t exactly been ‘dominant’ either – losing a game to Hwasin. Sure Jaedong’s still great, but he’s lost his edge and will be crashing down to earth soon.

The same can be said for Stork – who ironically brought out the best in Flash. We are all aware of Storks comeback in the Daum 3rd/4th playoffs with his Carrier antics which made Flash look like a complete noob. But Flash took this set back and turned it around into his strongest point. He developed a specific anti-Shuttle Play build and highly refined anti-Carrier micro which he first showcased against Anytime in the GSI. Flash’s crushing defeat of Stork in the GSI 3-2 was undoubtedly a huge blow to Stork, but his humiliating 0-3 to Flash in the OSL was much worse. Flash had taken the wind out of Stork’s sails by crippling his mental condition.




So what exactly is making Flash different to the players of today – why is he so strong in all match ups?

Well like other great players, he turned a race weakness into his biggest strength. Savior broke out onto the scene by showing that Nada’s ‘invincible’ SK Terran could be defeated by heavy defiler use which later became his signature move. Bisu revitalised the fight against Zerg by embracing Sair-DT play after FE and created a wave of strong PvZ gamers. Stork brought PvT to stagnation with his Shuttle+Reaver into Carrier use and created a wave of Protoss > Terran. Jaedong reversed the harm that Bisu had done by turning his weakest match up into his strongest and developed a way to fight off the harass. As already mentioned, Flash took the standard PvT model imposed on the scene by Stork and developed an effective counter to it reversing P>T trends. Nothing here is unique about him really, so it must lie elsewhere.

An interesting comment made by Yellow about Flash deals specifically with this issue;

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When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... That really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So perhaps Flash is the player who is bringing back the old school way of abilities over mindset. But this simply can’t be the case. Stork’s macro and Jaedong’s macro is on par with Flash’s, there can be no doubt. Each of them boasts formidable talent in doing the fundamental skills of Starcraft. Flash was able to overcome them both not by using his hands, he used his head.

On both counts Flash was able to circumvent Stork and Jaedong's mindset and destroy them by reducing their mental condition to rubble. He used calculated strategy, such as the Flash Build and Metal against Jaedong on Katrina, to win games and gain a mental advantage over his opponent by unsettling their in game plans. There was no way he could have defeated Jaedong without first demolishing his mental strength. The rush fest in the GSI was a testament to Jaedong's frustration at Flash - Jaedong simply imploded. Jaedong could have very well defeated Flash with straight up play, but Flash got to him first - and Jaedong lost it. The frustration of being cheesed and the lack of a solution for Flash's mech build on Katrina demolished his mental strength and lead to Flash taking the win on both counts.

Stork is another prime example of this, he simply could not find an effective counter for Flash’s PvT build and ran himself into a brick wall each game by repeating the same build in both the GSI and the OSL Finals. Stork was criticised quite heavily by fans around the world for not changing his play and becoming a boring Protoss. Flash got inside his head and defeated Stork from the inside out causing him to play within his comfort zone. Flash capitlised on this every game. Flash's brilliant build took Stork out of the comfort zone he was trying to create. Stork simply could not respond effectively to this challenge and, like Jaedong, imploded. Stork's dismal OSL performance just shows how much those losses destroyed Stork's mental strength and reduced him to 'just another Protoss'.

Flash is a new kind of champion, one who understands the importance of maintaining peak mental condition at all stages during a tournament. One who realises that no matter who his opponent is he must crush their mental strength to achieve a convincing a dominating victory. His amazing fundamentals and creative mind are simply the vessel to enact this punishment on his victims. He does everything in his power to win each set, and inflicts as much mental anguish as possible when he does so. This is exactly how Flash crushed the best that Protoss and Zerg had to offer. In addition to this his own mental strength grows with each win, just as his momentum does. And this makes him a very daunting opponent no matter who you are.

Only time will tell us whether Flash can be classed as a legend like Boxer or Nada, no one has really been able to gain the upper hand over him and defeat him in an important event. But when Flash does finally fall, it will be because a new gamer has come along and been able to take Flash out of his comfort zone and crush him – just as he has done to many other great gamers. And then a new dominant player will emerge and carry a stronger mental state which will propel him onto great things. Indeed, this shift in Brood War has reduced the longevity of dominance and increased turnover of dominant players. Very soon the whole process will be repeating over. That being said, Flash has gone one step further than other gamers and created a style targeted at the mental state. This makes him a revolutionary, and one who’s impact on the scene will be felt for years to come. Arguably, this next great dominant player will take things another step further - but we’ll have to wait to see that.



Flash is the player to beat, and he knows it

Despite Starcraft going through one of the most competitive phases in its history, we still have had the emergence of true greats. These greats are not separated by the rest because of their fundamental skills, like the gamers of old were, but they win and lose based on a mental edge. Indeed, the mental edge has become the most prominent facet of progaming today – something which Flash has capitalised on. He has won his games against other greats by using his head to demolish their mental condition and then power his way to victory. His entire style is built around this idea. Flash may not be iloveoov or Boxer, but he is taking Brood war in new directions – and for that – he gets my respect and admiration.

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发表于 2008-6-19 22:16 |只看该作者
木哈哈哈,直接帖地址好了!

http://www.wfbrood.com/xingji/meiwen/xingji_30456.html
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火星人你好。
卿晓寒夜,须知朝阳
胸大了不起么,爽的又不是自己!
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2008年度八达十大水友 2009年度八达十大杰出青年

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....不过确实是越赢越有信心的
处女默默飘,对你们微笑一下,(*^__^*) 嘻嘻……O(∩_∩)O...哈哈...
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2008年度八达十大杰出青年 2007年度八达十大杰出青年

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来源:8da翻译组 作者:little7 发表评论  添加到百度搜藏 |   添加到雅虎收藏
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发表于 2008-6-19 22:27 |只看该作者
LZ火星回来了?
韩国星际新闻站 http://cobet.8da.com
八达地图 http://map.8da.com
八达直播 http://live.8da.com

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发表于 2008-6-19 22:34 |只看该作者
看了。确实是好文。。好多我心里的想法。
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发表于 2008-6-20 01:07 |只看该作者
zhe ge yao ding
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