维基解密电报揭示对中国核安全的担忧ZT

faye2500

The newly built Ling Ao secondary phase of the Daya Bay Nuclear Power station in China. Photograph: Adrian Bradshaw/EPA

中国新建成的大亚湾核电站岭澳第二阶段机组。摄影：阿德里安布拉德肖/美国國镓环境保护局

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

China has "vastly increased" the risk of a nuclear accident by opting for cheap technology that will be 100 years old by the time dozens of its reactors reach the end of their lifespans, according to diplomatic cables from the US embassy in Beijing.

由于选择廉价的核电技术，中国的核事故风险已经“大大增加”了，这些（老旧的）核电技术100岁的时候，几十个核反应堆都将寿命终结。根据美国驻北京大使馆的外交电报。

The warning comes weeks after the government in Beijing resumed its ambitious nuclear expansion programme, that was temporarily halted for safety inspections in the wake of the meltdown of three reactors in Fukushima, Japan.

警告发出的几个星期后，北京炡椨重启了其雄心勃勃的核电扩张计划，即使之前发生了日本福岛三个反应堆堆芯融化的事故。

Cables released this week by WikiLeaks highlight the secrecy of the bidding process for power plant contracts, the influence of government lobbying, and potential weaknesses in the management and regulatory oversight of China's fast-expanding nuclear sector.

本周维基解密公布的电报显示了电厂合同在招投标过程中的秘密，炡椨游说的影响，以及中国快速扩张的核电部门在管理和监管疏忽方面潜在的脆弱性。

In August, 2008, the embassy noted that China was in the process of building 50 to 60 new nuclear plants by 2020. This target – which has since increased – was a huge business opportunity. To keep up with the French and Russians, the cable urged continuous high-level advocacy on behalf of the US company Westinghouse to push its AP-1000 reactor.

2008年8月，大使馆指出，中国计划到2020年建成50到60个新的核电站。这个目标——后来又被加码——是一个巨大的商机。为了跟上与法国和俄罗斯（的脚步），电报敦促继续大力支持美国西屋公司的利益，以推动其AP-1000反应堆（的项目）。

This is crucial, according to the cable dated 29 August 2008 from the American Embassy in Beijing, because "all reactor purchases to date have been largely the result of internal high level political decisions absent any open process."

根据2008年8月29日在北京的美国大使馆的电报，这是至关重要的。因为“到目前为止，所有反应堆的采购基本上都是内部高层政治决定的结果，而没有外界参与的可能性。”

For the US embassy, a bigger concern was that China seemed more interested in building its own reactors – the CPR-1000 – based on old Westinghouse technology, at Daya Bay and Ling Ao.

对美国大使馆来说，更关心的是中国看起来对建造自己的反应堆——CPR-1000（基于旧的西屋技术，位于大亚湾和岭澳）——更感兴趣。

"As the CPR-1000 increases market share, China is assuring that rather than building a fleet of state-of-the-art reactors, they will be burdened with technology that by the end of its lifetime will be 100 years old," reads another cable dated 7 August 2008.

据另一份2008年8月7日的电报显示：“由于CPR-1000的出现扩大了市场份额，尽管存在着技术就快到期的风险，中国还是要建造一组国内最先进的反应堆。”

For the past 10 years the CPR-1000 has been the most popular design in China. In 2009, the state news agency Xinhua reported that all but two of the 22 nuclear reactors under construction applied CPR-1000 technology.

过去的10年，CPR-1000是中国最流行的设计。2009年，中国國镓通讯社新华社的报道说，所有在建的22个核反应堆中，只有两个没有应用CPR-1000技术。

The cable suggests this was a dangerous choice: "By bypassing the passive safety technology of the AP1000, which, according to Westinghouse, is 100 times safer than the CPR-1000, China is vastly increasing the aggregate risk of its nuclear power fleet. "

该电报表明这是一个危险的选择：“由于绕过西屋公司的被动式安全技术，大大增加了中国庞大的核电机组的总风险。西屋公司的AP-1000的被动式安全技术的安全性是CPR-1000的100倍。”

"Passive safety technology" ensures that a reactor will automatically shut down in the event of a disaster without human intervention. Plants without this feature are considered less safe as they rely on human intervention which can be difficult to provide in a crisis situation.

“被动式安全技术”能够确保反应堆在发生灾难时自动关闭，而无需人工干预。没有这个功能的反应堆被认为是不安全的，因为它们依靠人工干预，遇到危险的情况则无能为力。

China says it has updated and improved the technology on which the CPR-1000 is based, but the government recognises that it is less safe than newer models. China's national nuclear safety administration and national energy administration are currently drafting new safety plans, which are thought likely to include a stipulation that all future plants have to meet the higher standards of third-generation reactors like the AP-1000 or thorium technology.

中国说，它已更新和改进了CPR-1000的技术，但炡椨认识到，与新型号相比，该技术依然不够安全。中国國镓核安全局和國镓能源局目前正在起草新的安全计划，预期它将有可能包括一项规定，今后所有的反应堆必须满足更高的第三代反应堆的标准，比如AP-1000或者钍技术。

But it will still have to manage dozens of second-generation reactors for decades to come. Four CPR-1000s were approved by the state council just days before the Fukushima explosions. That accident – which was ranked on the same level as Chernobyl – has prompted a dramatic rethink of nuclear policy in Japan, Germany and Italy.

但是未来几十年，中国仍然需要管理几十个第二代的反应堆。就在福岛核爆的几天前，国务院刚刚批准了四个CPR-1000（的项目）。福岛核爆与切尔诺贝利的事故属同一级别，该事故引起了日本、德国和意大利对核政策的强烈反思。

There is no sign of a change of heart in China, which plans to build more reactors than the rest of the world put together between now and 2020. The latest to be completed was the CPR-1000 at Ling Ao earlier this month.

中国炡椨并没有要做出改变的迹象，它们计划从现在开始到2020年建造比世界上其他地方都要多的核电站。最近要建成的是将于本月早些时候完工的位于岭澳的CPR-1000。

The US embassy and Westinghouse may have wanted to play up the risks to improve the strength of their own bids, but safety concerns are also expressed within China. This year, Prof He Zuoxiu, who helped to develop China's first atomic bomb, claimed plans to ramp up production of nuclear energy twentyfold by 2030 could be as disastrous as the "Great Leap Forward" – Mao Zedong's disastrous attempt to jump-start industrial development in the late 1950s.

美国大使馆和西屋公司想要加大筹码以提高它们中标的可能性，但同时也表达了对中国境内的安全问题的关切。今年，何祚庥教授声称，产品生产线般地到2030年将核能扩大二十倍的计划就如同毛时代的“大跃进”一样，是个灾难。“大跃进”是在20世纪50年代末，毝澤崬试图以跳跃式发展进入工业化。

（译者注：何祚庥，粒子物理、理论物理学家。上海人。1951年毕业于清华大学。中国科学院理论物理研究所研究员，中国科学院院士。主要从事理论物理学、科学史、自然辩证法、哲学、政治经济学等方面的科学研究并取得多项重要成果。曾参与中国第一颗原子弹、氢弹的研制开发，是揭批伪科学的顽强斗士。）

Writing in the Science Times, He asked: "Are we really ready for this kind of giddy speed [of nuclear power development]? I think not – we're seriously underprepared, especially on the safety front."

他在科学时报上撰文问道：“我们真的对这种令人晕眩的[核电发展]速度准备好了吗？我不这么认为——我们还远未准备好，尤其是在安全领域。

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

The rush to build new plants may also create problems for effective management, operation and regulatory oversight. Westinghouse representative Gavin Liu was quoted in a cable as saying: "The biggest potential bottleneck is human resources – coming up with enough trained personnel to build and operate all of these new plants, as well as regulate the industry."

急于兴建新的反应堆还会带来诸如有效的管理，营运和管理监督的问题。电报引述了西屋代表刘加文的话：“最大的潜在瓶颈是人力资源——未来是否有足够的训练有素的人员，建设和运行所有的这些新的反应堆，同时建立这一行业的规范。”

Such worries increased in July when another of China's new industrial projects – a high-speed railway – led to a collision that killed 39 people. It too was built domestically, based on foreign designs and rolled out faster than its operators appear to have been capable of dealing with.

今年七月，中国的另一种新的工业项目-——高速铁路——列车相撞，导致39人死亡的事故发生后，进一步加深了这种担心。它也是建在国内，基于国外的设计，并在它的运营商似乎都不能处理的更快的速度上跑。
评论翻译:

评论部分：
retrorik
25 August 2011 4:15PM
"Nuclear" and "Safety" ? I think not. "........it will be too cheap to meter....." yeah.

“核能”和“安全”？我认为不会。“........便宜没好货.....” 耶。

markulyseas
25 August 2011 4:17PM
Thank you wikileaks and in particular Julian Assange. Now will the US of A please leave him alone to carry on his good work.

谢谢维基解密和特别是朱利安阿桑奇。现在请美国让他独自离开，以便他能继续开展他的工作。

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

alexcox
25 August 2011 4:29PM
"Passive safety technology" didn't prevent a meltdown at Fukushima, nor did it prevent the breaching of the cooling tanks (placed unbelievably on the now-inaccessible fourth floor of the reactor building).
Fukushima continues to release deadly radiation into the air and water table.
The only solution - a Chernobyl-style entombment in earth and concrete (which will at least reduce atmospheric contamination, if not water contamination) is being ignored.
There is no 'safe' nuclear technology. All of it - weapons or power - carries with it the potential for unlimited disaster. This is why no company - including Westinghouse - will embark upon any new-build nuclear plants without a guarantee that the taxpayer, in the event of such a disaster, will pay the bills.
Renewables, anyone?

“被动式安全技术”并不能阻止福岛核泄漏，也没能防止冷却罐的破裂（冷却罐难以置信地被建设在反应堆建筑里人迹罕至的四楼）。福岛继续往空气和地下水中释放致命放射物。唯一的解决办法就是用混凝土建造一个切尔诺贝利事故的那种棺材，这将至少减少大气污染，如果没有水的污染的话。没有'安全'的核技术。所有的武器或者电站都有可能引发巨大的灾难。这就是为什么没有一家公司——包括西屋公司——在开始建造新的核电站时，不对纳税人保证万一发生灾难后会给予补偿。可再生能源也是一样。

whizgiggle
25 August 2011 4:35PM
Wikileaks really is the gift that keeps on giving

维基解密总是能不断地带给我惊喜。

6ihvkngb9
25 August 2011 4:52PM
cue the China-apologists!

提醒了中国的支持者！

ColinG
25 August 2011 4:59PM
"Passive safety technology" ensures that a reactor will automatically shut down in the event of a disaster.
The article is a bit confused here. The passive safety technology in question is the AP-1000's ability to passively cool the core after shutdown. This was lacking at Fukushima.
In the AP1000 the passive cooling works for 3 days with no operator intervention, no external power and no diesel generators. (After 3 days the water tank needs to be topped up.)

引用：“被动式安全技术”能够确保反应堆在发生灾难时自动关闭

这篇文章是有点混淆。被动式安全技术的问题是AP-1000在反应堆被关闭后能被动冷却核心的能力。而这正是福岛核电站欠缺的。
AP1000在没有操作员干预的情况下会被动地冷却三天，无需外接电源和柴油发电机。（三天以后，需要将水箱再次注满水。）

limu
25 August 2011 5:06PM
Having lived there for some time I'm not surprised by this.
Everything they have made has been a rushed botch job.
Buildings have an average life expectancy of 20-30 years; well under the Chinese advised level of 50 years.
They grew as big and as fast as possible.
Knowing someone who worked on the new high speed rail system I've been told that they used the cheapest concrete and steal and literally threw the whole thing together. Now we have train crashes, one of which killed over 100 people.
Give it another 30 years and we'll see the 3 Gorges Dam collapse and their reactors explode. It will be interesting to see how they try and cover those events up in the press.

已经在中国生活了一段时间，表示对此并不惊讶。
他们所做的一切都是匆忙的修补工作。
建筑物平均寿命在20至30年之间；远低于中国（建筑）规划的50年的水平。
他们尽可能快地成长和壮大。
我认识的一位在新的高速铁路系统工作的朋友告诉我说，他们将最便宜的混凝土偷偷摸摸拼凑在一起。现在我们的火车相撞了，其中超过100人丧生了。
再给它30年，我们将会看到三峡大坝倒塌，他们的反应堆爆炸。到时看看他们如何试图在新闻报道中掩盖这些倳件将会很有趣。

oldbrew
25 August 2011 5:09PM
Whatever the local phrase for 'no publicity' is, the guy in the middle of the photo is thinking it.

当地所谓“不宣传”这个词的意思是照片中间的那个家伙正在考虑的事情。

RuthArcher
25 August 2011 5:10PM
it's a shame China doesn't invest in renewables (but not hydro- we have seen how destructive that is in that country) if they had the vision to do this while they were "rolling in money" they could lead the world for sustainable energy and as a result change the fate of the planet.
The amount of sulphur rich coal that is being burned in China to fuel their (and subsiquently our) manufacuring actuivty is a worry which leaves nuclear the most environmentaly sensible option!

这是一个耻辱，中国没有在可再生能源上投资（不包括水力发电，我们都知道它对该国的破坏有多严重）如果他们的眼光来看到这一点，他们就会“财源滚滚”，他们将会在可持续能源方面引领世界，最终可能改变地球的命运。
中国正在燃烧大量的富硫煤，以使他们的工厂运转（随后我们也将一样），这使得他们认为对环境来说核能是更明智的选择。

mhenri
25 August 2011 5:12PM
Vital for us all - Chinese and non-Chinese alike - that WikiLeaks continues to be able to reveal what is going on behind that which appears to be going on. But it should always be remembered that the cables released show what US diplomats have chosen to tell their superiors - which is not necessarily synonymous with objective truth. Still, these analyses are likely far more accurate than Bowderlised versions reported to the public by official sources....
Henri

对我们所有的中国人，非中国人也一样，最关键的是维基解密能够继续揭示好像是怎么回事背后的真相。但不要忘记公布的电报显示的是美国外交官选择告诉他们上司的——它并不是客观真理的代名词。不过，这些分析很可能比通过官方消息来源报道给公众的Bowderlised版本更准确....
亨利

EmperorsAndPirates
25 August 2011 5:18PM
Wiki leaks sounds more and more like american propaganda every day

维基泄密听起来越来越像美国每天的宣传。

Realliberal
25 August 2011 5:27PM
China is a totalitarian state: nothing that the govermnent said can be tested for its truth. Perhaps some of those faux-liberals who write here occasionally might like to say what the opposition parties in China say or perhaps they might like to obtain information under the Chinese Freedom of Information Act, or from a free and uncontrolled newspaper or television channel.

中国是一个极权國镓，他们炡椨所说的真相是不能通过检验的。或许有些在这里偶然出没的伪自由派人士可能会说，中国的反对派都说了些什么，或者他们可以在中国的信息自由法下，或是从自由的和不受控制的报纸或电视频道那里获得信息。

piersplowman
25 August 2011 5:37PM
Just what was needed to show that WikiLeaks is not specifically aimed at the USA.

只需要表明的是，维基解密不是专门针对美国的。

afternoonguide
25 August 2011 5:44PM
China is still a developing country, you can't really expect that anything will be up to western standards.
I personally don't know what to think of this: on one hand, it's frightening that sub-standard reactors are being built; on the other hand, what's the alternative? Hydroelectric potential is limited, and requires extremely large and complicated construction projects that cause endless problems, like the Three Gorges Dam. No one who's visited Shaanxi Province would say that coal power is a feasible solution either.
Trying to curb electricity consumption would be political suicide for the Party.
Nuclear power is unfortunately the only realistic and 'safe' option for now.

中国仍然是一个发展中國镓，你不能指望（它的）任何事情都符合西方的标准。
我个人对此不知该说些什么：一方面，它是可怕的，不合标准的反应堆正在兴建；另一方面，有什么可以替代的呢？水力发电的潜力是有限的，需要极其庞大和复杂的建设项目，这导致无休止的问题，如三峡大坝。无论是谁访问了陕西省的人会说，燃煤发电是一个可行的的解决办法。
试图遏制电力消耗，对党来说是政治自杀。
核电不幸地是现在唯一现实的“安全”的选项。
（译者注：此人的头像是两个大大的汉字：烏勇）

TollyPointbee
25 August 2011 5:57PM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

这个评论是由版主删除，因为它没有遵守我们的社区规范。回复也可能被删除。对于更多细节，请参阅我们的常见问题。

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

economicwar
25 August 2011 6:06PM
I'm willing to bet you a penny to a pound there will be a nuclear disaster in China within a decade

我愿意和你打赌一磅一便士，十年之内中国必发生核灾。

MooseFreedomFighter
25 August 2011 6:20PM
the Chinese Authorities are a disgrace in many many ways
this is just another example
Their Communism benefits a the very very few and all Democratic countries should refuse to trade or deal with them in any way - clearly this will never happen

中国当局在很多方面都是耻辱，这只是又一个例子罢了。
他们的共产主义的利益非常非常少，所有的民主國镓都应该拒绝和他们以任何方式进行商业和贸易——显然，这将永远不会发生。

ponder
25 August 2011 6:31PM
Even this old design will most likely cause less harm to the Chinese than the coal plants with no real pollution controls that they're throwing up at an impressive rate.
alexcox:
Passive safety technology" didn't prevent a meltdown at Fukushima,
Well, that's because the Fukushima design relied on active (powered) safety systems, which is why the loss of the diesel generators was a major problem.

即使是这种老旧的技术可能也要比那些他们以惊人的速度兴建的没有真正污染控制的火力发电厂对中国人造成的伤害小。

alexcox：“被动式安全技术”并不能阻止福岛核泄漏，

嗯，这是因为福岛的设计上依赖主动（有源）式安全系统，这就是为什么柴油发电机的损失是一个重大的问题。

hoppie00
25 August 2011 6:41PM
China have backed themselves into a corner, the appetite for energy consumption here is extraordinary, but they lack the means to deliver to their own people. I admire their vision though, they're doing everything and anything possible to achieve it.
But with desperation...

中国已经把自己逼到了一个死角，他们对能源消耗的胃口惊人，但他们却没办法给自己的人民提供。不过，我很佩服他们的视野，他们做什么都有可能实现。
但是令人绝望的是... ...

alexcox
25 August 2011 6:43PM
Ponder
So are you okay about what's going on at Fukushima? Is everything under control there?
Of course coal fired power plants are a massive problem. But they're a different sort of problem, and in the event of a serious fire or explosion the damage can be anticipated and mitigated.
There is no limit to the potential disaster a nuclear plant meltdown can unleash. And no limit to our liability, as taxpayers, to clean it up.
China has a huge land mass with plenty of wind and sunlight and an vast coast where tide power could be deployed.
It is also the world's largest producer of photovoltaics, most of which are exported to the west, leaving the toxic residue in China.
Renewables, anyone?
Ponder

所以对于福岛发生的事你了解吗？那里一切尽在掌握之中吗？
燃煤的火力发电厂当然是一个巨大的问题。但他们是不同类型的问题，并且可以预见和减轻严重的火灾或爆炸造成的伤害。
而核电站一旦发生泄漏所造成的灾难将是不可预期的。作为纳税人的我们要把它清理干净是责无旁贷的。
中国广大的国土面积有足够的风能和太阳能资源，他们也有广阔的海岸线可以开发潮汐能。
同时也是世界上最大的光伏生产商，其中大部分产品出口到西方，留给中国的是有毒的残留物
。
可再生能源呢，各位？

fivemack
25 August 2011 6:59PM
Yes, I am OK about what's going on at Fukushima, and everything is as close to under control there as could reasonably be hoped for. It was a worst-case scenario and is going to result in the loss of economic usability of a thousand square kilometres of Japanese coastal farmland.

是的，我知道福岛发生了什么，并且一切都尽可能如预期的一样得到控制。最坏的情况下将会导致日本沿海千余平方公里的农田经济可用性的损失。

pietari
25 August 2011 7:03PM
Here's quite a bit of material on the Chinese nuclear developments.http://www.iaea.or.at/NuclearPow ... 000_CGNPC_S.Lau.pdf

这里有不少关于中国的核电发展的材料。http://www.iaea.or.at/NuclearPow ... 000_CGNPC_S.Lau.pdf

onthefence
25 August 2011 7:05PM
alexcox: Of course coal fired power plants are a massive problem. But they're a different sort of problem, and in the event of a serious fire or explosion the damage can be anticipated and mitigated.
Coal certainly is a different sort of problem.
Coal-fired electricity causes 161 deaths per TWh of electricity generated, not as a result of accidents, but as a normal part of its operations.
You feel strongly enough to post often on this topic, yet you know less than nothing about it.
What motivates you?

alexcox：燃煤的火力发电厂当然是一个巨大的问题。但他们是不同类型的问题，并且可以预见和减轻严重的火灾或爆炸造成的伤害。
当然，煤炭是一个不同的类型问题。
火力发电每产生161亿千瓦时电力就要造成161个人死亡，这些人并非死于意外，他们是正常作业的一部分。
你对这个话题的回复都带有强烈的感情色彩，然而事实上你却知之甚少。
你的动机到底是什么？

roborbob
25 August 2011 8:41PM
This is what I say a more constructive news on criticism of China.

这就是我说的对中国的批评更有建设性的新闻。

BunnyFlumplekins
25 August 2011 9:11PM
@alexcox
Of course coal fired power plants are a massive problem. But they're a different sort of problem, and in the event of a serious fire or explosion the damage can be anticipated and mitigated.
So you prefer a power which is guaranteed to kill waaaaaay more people than the alternative source you criticize.
Mind you. That can be both anticipated and mitigated, as you say. You could ensure you have the numbers for various flower shops and send flowers to the relatives of the deceased, for instance.

@alexcox：燃煤的火力发电厂当然是一个巨大的问题。但他们是不同类型的问题，并且可以预见和减轻严重的火灾或爆炸造成的伤害。
所以，比起你所批评的替代方案，你更偏爱那种保证能够杀死更多人的发电站。
请注意。可以预见和减轻，如你所说的。举个例子，你可以确定你要到各种花店买多少只花，并把花送给你的遭受灾难的亲戚。

ankh
25 August 2011 9:52PM
This is hardly a secret -- looks to me like the State Dep't cable is just quoting from published official Chinese sources there, which have been reported before.
China's officially on record on that possibility--they're worried about going too fast for their quality control:
http://www.world-nuclear-news.or ... a_told_1101112.html
"11 January 2011
China should 'keep a clear head' on nuclear power, concentrate more on Generation-III reactors and keep its new build ambitions for 2020 to around 100 GWe, said a state body yesterday.
The advice came from the State Council Research Office (SCRO), which makes independent policy recommendations to the State Council on strategic matters. It appeared officially in Xinhua's weekly Outlook publication.
....
Going too far too fast 'could threaten the long-term healthy development ...
...
... ambitious targets to deploy AP1000s with reduced foreign input have proven difficult due to frequent quality control issues in the supply chain. As a result ... China is building Generation-II units in such large numbers, said the SCRO, counting 57 on the books."
----
Want scary? look up "quality control issues" for this or any other important equipment. Then look up "counterfeit bolt" and go on from there.
Sturgeon's Law applies. You know how to look it up.

这实在不是什么秘密——在我看起来，就像国务院的电报，仅仅是从中国公布的官方资料那里引述而来，而这他们之前已经有报告了。
中国官方对这种可能性的记录——它们担心走得太快而质量控制跟不上：
http://www.world-nuclear-news.or ... a_told_1101112.html
“2011年1月11日
中国应该对核电“保持一个清醒的头脑”，专注于第三代反应堆，并保持到2020年新建机组达到100万千瓦左右的雄心，一位炡椨官员昨天如是说。
以下是来自国务院研究室（SCRO）的建议，国务院研究室是给国务院在战略问题上提供独立的政策建议的机构。这是官方的新华社的每周展望出版物，
...
过快或者过远会威胁长期的健康发展...
...
...雄心勃勃的目标，部署AP1000以减少外国的进口被证明是困难的，由于频繁地在供应链的质量控制上出现问题。结果是...中国正在建设大量的第二代核电机组，国务院研究室说，书上说的是有57个。”
----
想要更可怕的吗？在上面查找“质量控制问题”或者其他的重要设备。然后，查找“假冒螺栓”然后开始阅读吧。
鲟鱼的法律应用。你知道如何看待它。

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

VenusianVan
25 August 2011 10:26PM
How are those "cheap" and "quickly built" Chinese nukes looking now? Good luck to the Chinese people - you're going to need it in the coming years.
~~~
ColinG
> In the AP1000 the passive cooling works for 3 days...
Ah, yes. The fabled infallible nuke reactor that the nuke lobby has been promising for the past 60 years. Shame it has a tendency to leak like a sieve.
~~~
limu
> Having lived there for some time I'm not surprised by this.
This is not unique to China. Wherever the nuke industry has set up shop there have been catastrophes, near-misses, leaks, cover-ups and corruption... and still they try and spin their stories that the next generation of nukes are infallible.
~~~
RuthArcher
> it's a shame China doesn't invest in renewables
They are investing more in renewables than any other country on the planet. They are deploying far more renewable energy than nuclear.
* China has raised its target for renewable energy to 500 GW by 2020 - compared to 70GW for nuclear. http://www.renewableenergyworld. ... cy-update-for-china + http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBJI00247420101124
Those are pre-Fukushima plans. I believe they have given further priority to renewables over nukes as a result - but it's obviously difficult to confirm exactly what is happening with any reliability.
~~~
ponder
> ...coal plants with no real pollution controls that they're throwing up at an impressive rate.
Your anti-China talking point is out of date.
* China Outpaces U.S. in Cleaner Coal-Fired Plants. "China has begun requiring power companies to retire an older, more polluting power plant for each new one they build."
~~~
onthefence
> Coal certainly is a different sort of problem.
Good that you admit both coal and nukes are a problem. And it's lucky that we can get rid of both of these death-spewing industries.

* "...cancer ... risks are increased even with the smallest dose of radiation. The so-called permissible dose of radiation, for nuclear workers or for the public at large, represents only a legalized permit for the nuclear industry to commit random, premeditated murders upon the ... population."

现在怎么看中国的那些“廉价的”和“快速建造的”核武器？祝你好运，中国人民——你们会在未来几年内需要它的。
~~~
ColinG：AP1000的被动式冷却工作三天... ...
嗯，不错。传说中的万无一失核反应堆，核电游说集团承诺了60年。可耻的是，现在有就像筛子一样泄漏的趋势。
~~~
limu：已经在中国生活了一段时间，表示对此并不惊讶
这不是中国所独有的。无论在什么地方，核工业的成长都伴随着灾难，幸免于难，泄漏，掩盖和腐败...他们仍然在尝试和继续他们的故事，以使得新一代的核电站能够万无一失。
~~~
RuthArcher：这是一个耻辱，中国没有在可再生能源上投资
他们比这个世界上任何其他國镓对可再生的能源投入都多。比起核能他们开展了更多的可再生能源。
中国已经提出了到2020年将有500万千瓦的可再生能源的目标——比起核能是70万千瓦。http://www.renewableenergyworld. ... cy-update-for-china + http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBJI00247420101124
这些都是福岛核危机之前的计划了。我相信通过福岛倳件比起核能来，他们将更重视发展可再生能源——但这显然难以确认在可靠性上到底发生了什么。
~~~
ponder：...他们以惊人的速度兴建的没有真正污染控制的火力发电厂。
你的反华言论已经过时了。
在清洁的火力发电站方面中国已经超过美国了。“中国已经开始要求电力公司在新建电厂的时候关闭那些老旧的、污染严重的电厂。
~~~
onthefence：当然，煤炭是一个不同的类型问题。
好，你承认煤炭和核能都存在问题。幸运的是，我们可以摆脱这些死亡喷涌的行业。
“...癌症...风险增加，即使是最小剂量的辐射。所谓的对于核电站员工，或广大公众允许的辐射剂量，表明的只是核工业有了一个合法的杀人执照，使得他们可以随机、有预谋地谋杀...人口。”

ChinaBounder
25 August 2011 11:07PM
afternoonguide:
I personally don't know what to think of this: on one hand, it's frightening that sub-standard reactors are being built; on the other hand, what's the alternative?
Surely the alternative is to build more advanced reactors? The central government is hardly short of money - look at the billions they spunked on the Olympics and the Expo.
I'd assume that US 'worries' about Chinese nuclear tech are in part simply motivated by business considerations - i.e., they want China to buy their stuff.
But at the same time, the inherent secrecy of the CCP (and its scant regard for public opinion in such matters) combined with the endemic and rampant corruption in the nation gives rise to wholly legitimate concerns about nuclear safety in China.

afternoonguide：我个人对此不知该说些什么：一方面，它是可怕的，不合标准的反应堆正在兴建；另一方面，有什么可以替代的呢？
当然，另一种方法就是建立更先进的核反应堆？中央炡椨几乎不缺钱——看他们为澳运会和世博会花了数十亿美元。
我猜想美国对中国关于核技术的“担忧”有一部分动机是出于商业上的考虑——也就是说，他们希望中国买他们的东西。
与此同时，中国珙产黨固有的秘密性，加上该国特有的猖獗的腐败，引发了人们对于中国核能安全的完全正当的关切。

ponder
25 August 2011 11:43PM
ChinaBounder:
Surely the alternative is to build more advanced reactors? The central government is hardly short of money - look at the billions they spunked on the Olympics and the Expo.
They are, in fairness, trying to do this. Part of their deal with Westinghouse was technology transfer for the AP1000, so they could start building their own such reactors. But it can't be done quickly enough to meet their energy needs.

ChinaBounder：当然，另一种方法就是建立更先进的核反应堆？中央炡椨几乎不缺钱——看他们为澳运会和世博会花了数十亿美元。
他们，公平地说，正试图做到这一点。他们与西屋公司的交易的一部分，是对AP1000的技术转让，这样他们就可以开始着手建设自己的这种反应堆。但是它并不能做得足够快以满足其能源需求。

velocet
26 August 2011 3:35AM
Am I the only one who still believes nuclear power is a relatively safe option? It was revealed that Tepco cut corners in safety checks with the Fukushima plant, also bear in mind that was the strongest earthquake in the region since around 1200-1400 (don't remember exactly, sorry). Every nuclear power plant is not on a major fault line.
I also believe that story got sensationalised a lot in the media. How many people actually died/fell fatally ill due to it? The media using attention-grabbing phrases like, "radiation 1000 times the standard level is now being recorded around the power plant". But lets be honest, that's still not fatal without an extremely prolonged period of exposure right?
Only two major nuclear power plant accidents have happened, the other one being Chernobyl which was a Soviet era facility which I wouldn't be surprised facilitated gross mismanagement, not to mention it being a relatively new technology at that stage.
Of course I don't address the matter of used uranium and their affects on the environment, that's a much more controversial/debatable matter which more dedicated environmentalists/physicists/biologists/chemists would be better at answering.
Don't get me wrong, I am strongly in favour of wind, solar and possibly hydro electric power but I don't imagine 100% of our energy sources coming from those forms of generation. To clarify, I prefer nuclear power to oil, coal and natural gas power stations.

难道只有我一个人仍然认为核电是一种相对安全的选项吗？据透露，东京电力公司削减在福岛工厂角落的安全检查，同样，要记住这是自1200-1400左右以来（不记得确切，对不起）该地区的最强烈的哋震。每一个核电厂不在主要的断层线上。
我也相信媒体上这个故事要耸人听闻得多。事实上，到底有多少人死于这场核危机呢？媒体使用吸引眼球的字眼，比如“在电厂周边测得的辐射值是标准水平的1000倍”。但是说实话，没有非常长时间的暴露在外的话，这仍然不是致命的？
只发生了两起主要的核电厂事故，另一个是切尔诺贝利，它是苏联时代的设施，产生严重管理不善的情况我不会感到惊讶，更何况当时来说。这是一种相对较新的技术。
当然，我没有提到铀的使用问题及其对环境的影响，这是一个更富争议的问题，有更多的环境学、物理学、生物学、化学方面的专家会回答得更好。
不要误解我，我强烈赞成风能，太阳能以及可能的水力发电，但我不能想象我们的能源100％来自于这些方式。为了澄清，我更喜欢核电，石油，煤炭和天然气发电站。

twopennorth
26 August 2011 4:30AM
fivemack
Yes, I am OK about what's going on at Fukushima, and everything is as close to under control there as could reasonably be hoped for.
Three reactor cores melted though their containment vessels. Building 4 at risk of collapse, spilling its overloaded spent-fuel pool. Reactors unapproachable. Pipes leaking. Foundations cracked. Locations at the plant where radiation levels exceed 10 sieverts per hour. Tea crops irradiated over 300 km away. Beef, rice, milk, mushrooms, fruit crops, seafood and even wild boar meat irradiated. Schoolyards irradiated. City parks irradiated. Radioactive sludge building up at sewage treatment plants in Tokyo...
Sounds largely out of control to me.

fivemack：是的，我知道福岛发生了什么，并且一切都尽可能如预期的一样得到控制。
三个反应堆堆芯熔化了装它们的容器。大厦坍塌的风险是4，溢出其超载的乏燃料池。反应堆难以接近。管道漏水。地基开裂。发电厂的辐射水平超过每小时10西弗特。超过300公里的茶叶受辐射。牛肉，大米，牛奶，蘑菇，果树，海鲜，甚至野生野猪都被辐射。校园被辐射。城市公园被辐射。放射性的污泥，污水处理厂建设在东京...
我的声音都要失控了。

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:guizi22

pietari
26 August 2011 8:21AM
Three reactor cores melted though their containment vessels. Building 4 at risk of collapse, spilling its overloaded spent-fuel pool. Reactors unapproachable. Pipes leaking. Foundations cracked.
twopennorth, the molten cores have not breached their containment vessels. No "China syndrome" here, we may safely send it back to the drama literature. #4's foundations have been strengthened in July, and no spill is taking place. Pipes may still be leaking somewhere (but they need not be carrying radioactive material), and I'm positive there's a crack somewhere in the foundations after the tsunami.
Beef, rice, milk, mushrooms, fruit crops, seafood and even wild boar meat irradiated
twopennorth, everything here is irradiated. Occationally foodstuff (mostly fish) that is over the legal limit to sell still pops up here in my country due to Chernobyl. Are the Finnish kids therefore dead or dying, or even ever so slightly sick?
Sounds largely out of control to me.
I'n sure the accident will still be furiously raging on in some circles well into the 2020s. Having an opinion is one thing, messing with facts another.

引用：三个反应堆堆芯熔化了它们的安全壳。大厦坍塌的风险是4，溢出其超载的乏燃料池。反应堆难以接近。管道漏水。地基开裂。
twopennorth，熔化的堆芯还没有破坏反应堆的安全壳。这里没有“中国综合症”，我们可以安全地把它送回文学作品中。4号反应堆的建筑已经于7月得到加强了，并没有发生泄漏。管件可能仍有漏水的地方（但它们不需要运送放射性物质），我确定海啸过后，某处的地基一定有裂缝。
引用：牛肉，大米，牛奶，蘑菇，果树，海鲜，甚至野生野猪都被辐射。
twopennorth，这里的一切都是被辐射的。日常的食品（主要是鱼类）超过法定限制仍在出售，由于切尔诺贝利的影响突然出现在我的家乡这里。芬兰的孩子因此死亡或濒临死亡了吗，甚至有人因此生了一点病了吗？
我的声音都要失控了。
我确信这个事故仍会剧烈地影响全球直到2020年。你有你的观点是一回事，枉顾事实又是另一回事。

QueenElizabeth
26 August 2011 8:46AM
@afternoonguide
I personally don't know what to think of this: on one hand, it's frightening that sub-standard reactors are being built; on the other hand, what's the alternative?
As Chinabounder also notes, the alternative is to build high-standard, safe reactors. Or is that somehow not an alternative in China?

@afternoonguide：我个人对此不知该说些什么：一方面，它是可怕的，不合标准的反应堆正在兴建；另一方面，有什么可以替代的呢？
如同Chinabounder写到的，另一种方法就是建立高标准、更安全的核反应堆。这难道不是中国的另一个替代方案吗？

twopennorth
26 August 2011 9:29AM
pietari
All of the instances of contamination that I've cited involve levels that exceed the 'safe' limits set by the Japanese government. Finnish kids may have got off lightly but it is a different story for the children of Ukraine and Belarus, as NGOs such as Chernobyl Children's Life Line will inform you.
I stand corrected regarding the molten cores, but TEPCO itself has acknowledged that the containment chambers of the damaged reactors have likely been damaged. It is thanks to this damage that thousands of tonnes of highly contaminated cooling water have accumulated in the building's basements and are at risk of leaking into the groundwater and ocean.
pietari

我举的所有的污染物的例子都是超出了日本炡椨所设的“安全”界限的。芬兰的孩子或许受到的影响轻微，但是对于乌克兰和白俄罗斯的儿童却又是另一个故事了，比如切尔诺贝利儿童的生活线的这样的非炡椨组织会告诉你发生了什么。
我纠正关于堆芯融化的错误，但东京电力公司本身也承认，有可能被发生事故的反应堆的安全壳有可能被破坏了。由于它的损害，已经在大楼的地下室积累了数千吨的高污染的冷却水，随时都有泄漏到地下水和海洋的风险。

ChinaBounder
26 August 2011 9:30AM
Ponder:
Part of their deal with Westinghouse was technology transfer for the AP1000, so they could start building their own such reactors. But it can't be done quickly enough to meet their energy needs.
Fair enough.
In many ways China is handling its energy needs with a lot more responsibility than many Western nations, it seems to me. But (as you point out) the sheer scale of its energy needs causes problems on a different scope to pretty much any other nation.

Ponder：他们与西屋公司的交易的一部分，是对AP1000的技术转让，这样他们就可以开始着手建设自己的这种反应堆。但是它并不能做得足够快以满足其能源需求。
非常公平。
在我看来，中国在许多方面处理它的能源需求比许多西方國镓更具责任感。但（正如您所指出的）它们的能源需求规模如此庞大以至于和任何其他國镓相比都不在一个尺度上。

printerink
26 August 2011 10:36AM
The only really serious nuclear disaster took place in the Soviet Union, which like China is today was a backward, totalitarian regime where life is cheap and dissent often fatal.
We can't stop such vile governments jerry-building dangerous nuclear power stations but that doesn't mean advanced nations need stop building safe ones.

唯一真正严重的核灾难发生在苏联，这就像今天的中国一样是个落后的，极权主义政权，那里生命是廉价的和持不同政见者往往是致命的。
我们不能阻止这种卑鄙的炡椨偷工减料地建造危险的核电站，但这并不意味着先进國镓需要停止对安全的核电站的建造。

quokkaZ
26 August 2011 11:15AM
I must say it's a bit rich for the Americans to be criticizing China for building reactors that are probably as safe as the safest reactors in the current 100 strong US fleet.

我必须说，美国人对中国建设的反应堆批评的话有点多了，中国建造的反应堆可能和美国运行良好的100个最安全的核堆一样安全
维基解密电报揭示对中国的核安全的担忧

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TOP1 2011-08-28 10:42:06 来自：广东省深圳市 电信[如果喜欢此译文只需一键就能分享，谢谢大家对龙腾网的支持]

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转个台塆PTT上面的一个专业评论吧
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这篇文也写得太业余了，CPR-1000的确是比较过时的技术，但是也是世界上运营
经验最成熟的技术，是法国人在世界上卖得最多技术，这个技术也于1990s转让
给广核集团，广核集团大批量建造的核电厂也是用的这个反应炉。
CPR-1000有个好处就是 无论是设备，还是营造到营运，广核方面都有将近
20年的经验，加上法国人在世界各地建造的同型的核电厂，实际上选择这个
经济上，安全性上都最可靠....

AP-1000是所谓的第三代核电技术，不过所有的东西都在图纸上，还没有真正建造
运营过，第一个建造的，还是在中国，也就是说，除了中国愿意当白老鼠，
连美国人自己都没有用过....

如果说，使用CPR-1000就是过时核电技术，会造成安全隐患，那美国人所有的100多座
核电厂比CPR-1000的技术更过时，个个都应该是未爆弹，尤其是福田核电厂出包的
containment，美国人用的可不少，不知道NRC review的时候，会不会让这些全部
强制退役。

至于说，三代核电技术更安全，设计上这样讲没错啦 不过没有实际使用运营过，
设计上bug根本还没有被发现出来，谁知道呢。那中国的高温气冷炉，号称第四代
核电，事故发生之后可以拍屁股走人，反应炉靠自然对流就能保持安全状态，
岂不是更好，设计上，理论上是没错啦，不过一切都要实际运营才能检验
我猜这个电文也就是美国人推销AP1000失败之后的发泄文，说真的，美国人要诚心
想卖AP1000，至少嘛拿出点诚意来，在美国本土盖10个反应炉确保安全之后再来卖，
老是拿人家做白老鼠，还号称自己最安全，鬼才相信

好像台塆的核四也是美国人的白老鼠，只要是你肯当凯子，肯定最安全了

MartiniBlanco

这事如果开玩笑的话。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

sla)_nv

.............

BeRush

希望核电站别像 高铁那样大跃进，技术有了，管理却跟不上，那就是灾难